I was lurking in Substack, a website I only recently began visiting. In it there was a person who was an Evangelical Christian, but has now “deconstructed” his (or her… I forget) faith and is now agnostic or atheistic. There were many responses from various people of various faith allegiances. Many of these were Evangelical Christians. Responses from the Evangelicals were often less than helpful, but some were better than others.
One response I noted specifically said to the effect that “You went out from us so you were never of us.”
I considered that a thoroughly unhelpful response. Of course that response is very much “Biblical”… in the sense that it is very close to a direct quote from the Bible.
I John 2:19 says,
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” (ESV)
Now to understand this verse, one must know the context of the passage, the author, and the audience. We believe that it was written by St. John the Apostle and was written to Christians of the late first century— probably those living in modern-day Turkey. These Christians were suffering political persecution for their beliefs and practices. However, they were also suffering a theological “attack” from those outside of the church. One of the most difficult groups to deal with was those who had been part of the church family but then separated, preaching a different gospel.
These people could be described as apostates or, as John describes them, “antichrists.”
So looking at this verse, it is part of a passage attempting to guide Christians in how to think about these apostates/antichrists. These people were in the church, apparently even serving as teachers in the church, leaving and now preaching heresies. John says that the fact that they have left and are now preaching a “new gospel” means that they were never truly part of the church.
Let’s consider a few issues here.
#1. This passage is not really about eternal security. It sounds like it could be, but it is about apostates who left the church. It is not about being saved or not, but about their relationship to the community of faith. Is it possible that one can still apply it to the issue of eternal versus conditional security? Perhaps. It might have implications regarding salvation, but the passage’s direct application is human relationships, not divine relationships.
#2. Leaving the church (or a church) does not mean that one is now apostate. John was speaking of a very specific type of person. One of these is probably Cerinthus… a Gnostic who taught a message that diverted quite far from the message of the apostles. A person might leave the church for many reasons and to different extents. The writer of Hebrews spoke of people who had stopped gathering with the church assembly. While this was seen as a problem because of the times they were in, there was no suggestion that they were heretical, apostate, or doomed. (See Hebrews 10:25). The people that John is speaking of here were part of the church community and were teaching in it, and are now outside the church and teaching a very different message
In fact, if John was speaking of Cerinthus and other people that everyone would know, it is uncertain to what extent we should generalize it. Was his judgment of Cerinthus and company—that they were never part of the church assembly that they eventually left—applicable to all who did similar things down through history? I am tempted to say that it can be generalized. At the same time, I have heard stories of people that seem to show people who were sincere in their faith and sincere in their participation in their church community but then ended up rejecting everything and going against the church at a later time. Only God can judge the heart. We can only hear their stories.
#3. This verse is probably not useful to tell those who leave the church. This is where the missiological aspect begins to apply. The purpose of this message was for Christians. They were attempting to process those who had a role of teacher in the church and now are outside. Losing a member of the church family, especially in a culture of persecution, can be very hard. John is seeking to give them a certain amount of comfort or framing to deal with this loss.
But what should one say to the one who is considered to be apostate?
—One can condemn and combat. Irenaeus speaks about St. John and Polycarp and their way of addressing apostates. In his “Against Heresies III, 3.4”,
There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, “Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within.” And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion, who met him on one occasion, and said, “Do you know me?
” “I do know you, the first-born of Satan
.” Such was the horror which the apostles and their disciples had against holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of the truth; as Paul also says, (Titus 3:10)
Condemning is less a missiological approach than an episcopal role. An episcopal role is a supervisory role of the people in the community of faith. The goal is not primarily to care for those outside of the church. Rather, their goal is to care for the people of the church and identify and condemn those seeking to lead the saints astray.
—One can discuss and reach out. Instead of shaming people for leaving (Why do people do this?) or arguing with them, one can talk calmly about faith and practice. This is very much in line with interreligious dialogue. This is often used to reach out to people of other faiths. It tends to open up healthy discussions, allow the free exchange of ideas, and give opportunity for one to express Christian love… something that is challenging to do while condemning. Polycarp probably did not adorn the gospel to Marcion when he said, “I do know you, the first-born of Satan.”
I would argue that 1 John 2:19 strongly suggests the second approach. If “adorning the gospel” (Titus 2:10) and giving an answer as to the faith one has with gentleness and respect (I Peter 3:15) makes sense, then interreligious dialogue is more appropriate than condemning when reaching out missiologically to those of other faiths. But what category is “an apostate”? 1 John 2:19 says that they were never part of the church, so they are as much part of another faith as any other formal religion.
I do find it interesting that 1 John as a whole keeps expressing Christian love in terms of love for God and love for fellow believers. It does not speak of Christians expressing love to those outside of the community of the faithful. That does not undermine the principle of Christians expressing Christian love to all— it is just that John has a pastoral focus. He is worried about false teachings coming into the church. As such, 1 John is not really a missional epistle, in my opinion.
1 John says that we are to oppose false teachers— those who are out of the church (and in fact never of the church in a true sense), and we are not to love the systems on which this world operates. But it leaves a bit of a hole in terms of how Christians are to relate to those people who might be called false teachers.
#4. Perhaps we create these false teachers ourselves. Today, many people who leave the church physically and then become outspoken adversaries of the church do so in response to Christians in the church with ugly actions and ugly beliefs that they revolted against. I have a pastor friend who likes to say that those who leave the faith because of other Christians must have a feeble faith, since our faith should be grounded on God, not others. That is true to some extent. However, we all, in some sense, understand our relationship with God is mediated through Christians. When we are young it may be through parents. Then it is through perhaps Sunday School teachers, pastors, camp counselors, friends, family, and fellow congregants. If one’s faith is damaged, it is not generally self-inflicted but damaged by others. Jesus condemned those who caused immature followers to stumble, NOT the immature themselves. Perhaps this is why the common themes of (1) danger of heresy due to teachers who have left the church and (2) the importance of expressed love among congregants are bothe emphasized. The better we take care of the second theme, the less we are likely to have problems with the first theme.
Final thought. Just to make it clear, if you know people who have left the church and are now expressing a different faith, or expressing unhappiness about the Christian faith:
- Don’t condemn them. Worry not— plenty of others have done that job for you.
- Don’t ask them why they left. “Why” questions tend to sound accusatory. This is true in most circumstances, not just things about faith. That is why pastoral counselors and chaplains are encouraged to avoid “why” questions. You can, however, ask people to tell their story if they would like.
- ASC before you ASK. We use this in our counseling center. “A” stands for agnostic— meaning in this case not to assume you know the answers before you talk to the other person. “S” stands for suspicion— their story is their spin. That is okay. We all have our stories, and no personal stories align completely with the truth. Don’t get bothered by that or pick their story apart because of that. Always keep in mind that you are hearing only one side of the story. “C” means curious. Don’t just be curious to come up with an astonishing argument or counterattack. Be curious because you want to understand what they have gone through. Once these are well in place, one can ASK.
- Don’t focus on winning them back. They feel that they have experienced Christianity and found it wanting. You can’t just pop in and suddenly set things right. You need to earn the right to be heard. Listen more, talk less (James 1:19), make the gospel look good through your behavior (Titus 2:10), treat them with gentleness and respect (I Peter 3:15), and balance one’s desire to express truth with the importance of demonstrating kindness (Colossians 4:5-6).
